air jets setup

[louis]

Yes I know, this question off mine does not have one answer

I want to do some diverend setups with the air jets, so I'm looking for some information.
It is still bad whether in Holland so did not test it jet.

What did i find:


How bigger the air jet, how leaner the engine gets on high rpm

So i was thinking, a standart 3ma1 has this setup:


And the air jet map is this:


So when on full trothle a standard 3ma1 has the air jet 1 and 3 open.
The 130 and 160 total = 290

example (Warwickb) (hope you have no problem with you as example )

had 380/390 mains with standard air jet system, and performens exhausts.
over on fixed air jet he has 220/230 mains. with a 1.2mm drilled jet (will be a round 120 jet size)

You see the deference
290 air jet with 380/390 mains
120 air jet with 220/230 mains


So i was thinking going back on 280/290 and start with closing the air jets by 6000 rpm, leaving the standard air jet open the 130 (aways open) So from 6000 rpm is has a fixed air jet system (130 I think/hope)
Will be opening the airjets at mid range 3000 til 6000 rpm. (bigger air jet will lean the mid rpm's I hope)

What do you guys think, worth a shot. Or am I on the wrong way

[EEKNOWS]

Hey thanks louis I'll have a look and get back to you on this.  first I'll get a translation on the Japanese. Have you got a race or a normal P2 ignitech?

[louis]

I have the ignitech race on the 3ma.

On the air jet map I belief air jet 1 (Japanese and the 1) is air jet 3

Because air jet 1 is always open.

[Fotis]

i never understood the air jet principle...Why not have a small airjet in order to minimize the main jet?
An what is the difference if you have the air jet on carb face or in the solenoids? I suppose having the jet on carbs face it will affect it from the high pressure so it should be smaller than if it was in solenoids...

Louis I think its almost impossible to make a perfect carburation with the solenoids unless you have o2 sensor in your exhausts along with your temperature sensor. But even though it will take ages! Thats why I am thinking to cancel the solenoids completely and follow Warwick route...This is also something that the 2MA f3 manual suggests.

[louis]

Hi Fotis,

Think you right, there will be a divergence in air jet size if it is mounted in the carb face or used in the solenoids.
(how much off a divergence i do not know, perhaps a couple off sizes)

I have the option with the ignitech to controll them, so i just want to try it.
To see if it can be used to help the carbs work better on low rpm's.
I will try some divend opening timings of the solenoids to see/feel if it is making a divergence.

If it stays bad at low rpm's I will go over on fixed air jet, (same as Warwick) I just want to do thinks step by step
(I try everything what I waned to do, with the standard exhausts before i put on some performance pipes)
Now i want to explore the solenoids to see what I can do with them.

Hope that the wether will clear up today, don't want to make my first test drive in the rain

[EEKNOWS]

I'm getting a translation back soon so we'll all know what the diagram says.

There is NO need for O2 sensors.
The race you can have them RPM and TPS dependent, do you have TPS? The air corrector is required to stop the fuel curve going richer with rpm.So that will be the 'default' setting the always open No 2. I'm having trouble with the 2 graphs which are TPS/RPM on the axis and on/off.

Air soleniods were mainly developed for emissions reasons, they are usualy open just off pipe in the rpm range where the testing was completed at. The RGV/RS run AFR of about 16:1 from 6500-7500. I change that to shut at 6500, cleans up carburation there very well.

louis does your servo 'squeal' much with the race? What hystresis do you use?
TIA

[louis]

Yes the 3ma has a tps sensor, but I'm using that one for changing curves by hand.

will do a picture later to explain, I'm still working on it today

Sometime the servo squeal (a a noing piep) wen i switch on contact
I have my hysteresis at 200Mv

And the map Will be

-horizontal the rpm
-diagonal the tps (you can see the trothle handel stands)
-sensor is in use when line's are up
-sensor is closed when line's are down

[EEKNOWS]

[EEKNOWS]

I would make the TPS work as a TPS and switch with dirtbike kill switch grounding with the multifunction input (pins 22,24 or 25) and earth. Although I have had drama's getting the TPS to read correctly on the Ignitechs.

I love how the TPS axis is running backwards on th graph

This is what I come up with.



If your still rich on top you can try checking the box bottom right Solenoid 2 over 75%TPS over 10,000(I just plucked that figure)

This is one reason I like the Zeeltronic I can vary the duty between 0-100% at any rpm/tps

[louis]

Yes it is funny how the tps sensor is running back on the tps map, I noticed it to

I will not need the tps sensor to work with the carbs, I only use the rpm to control the airjets.

I have study your map, I think the air jets are standing too long open i would close them from 6000rpm (but coud be wrong her)
The 3ma has no problem running from 6000 till 12000 (it runs sweet there)
The big problem with a lot off 3ma's is under the 5000/6000 rpm.
There is were i want to try some diverend timing of airjets to see if i can clear it up at that range.

I use the tps sensor to switch between differend maps (have stored 5 maps now 10 maps will be max)

It is nice to know that you now your way with the ignitech
What bike's do you have them on?

[EEKNOWS]

I just made those figures to resemble the Yamaha graph. Maybe try cutting them at 6000 and work back down from there?

I've used Igntechs ans Zeeltronics on plenty of singles and twins, even vintage mx bikes with a pit bike stator/rotor. We have never had it so good with these 2 products.

[louis]

I will try it, when the rains stops here don't want to test in the rain. noting fun about that.

I'm working on a nsr250sp (rebuilding the engine) it is not mine but from a mate of my.
He likes the ignitech too and want to try it.
Do you have experience with the ignitech on a nsr250?

[EEKNOWS]

No and the NSR crowd seem welded and then rusted onto their PGM cards, why I don't know. Install should be easy.Getting a bit off topic so just send me a PM and I get a contact for a good friend who has just returned to Holland. He can answer lots of questions and provide assistance.

[louis]

Hmmm it was just a bit off topic , it is a nice twostroke

I think I know your friend, has he a aprillia rs250 with ignitech. did a lot of test benching to get the right ignition curve.
Moved to the Netherlands and lives in Friesland?

[EEKNOWS]

He is 'smokey rs250' on many forums IIRC he's moved to Sneek. I would love a "PENTAX NSR MC21" myself